Eurobasket 07

[jwfish6]

I wonder if Pau will play with Spain after all that happened last year. I would assume he would though. Putting the fact that they are brothers aside, that would be a hell of a froncourt even more so than last year after Marc's strides this year.

Who would you say are the early favorites...Greece, Spain and France?

Italy, Turkey and Serbia look like their heading towards a strong youth movement...

And I guess I cant leave this out...

http://www.24sec.net/article.asp?index=3885

To those who haven't read it, think their's anything realy behind it?

[DonMonte]

I wonder if Pau will play with Spain after all that happened last year. I would assume he would though. Putting the fact that they are brothers aside, that would be a hell of a froncourt even more so than last year after Marc's strides this year.

Who would you say are the early favorites...Greece, Spain and France?

Italy, Turkey and Serbia look like their heading towards a strong youth movement...

And I guess I cant leave this out...

http://www.24sec.net/article.asp?index=3885

To those who haven't read it, think their's anything realy behind it?


It will depend on it who will play. Serbia will have a tough time and will most likely will be without Krstic and Stojakovic and also Rakocevic and Avdalovic are not sure. After all what happend in the last year the goal of Serbia must be to get under the 1st 7 to have the chance to play at the pre oylmpic tournament.

For me Spain and Greece are above all others. Lithuania could have a strong squad with Jasikevicius, Siskauskas and Kaukenas back in the team. About Turkey i am not sure. They have to show us that the could play 2 good tournaments in 2 years not as in the past one good and then 4 bad. France with Parker will be strong and will have good chances for the 1/2final. Croatia could be strong if Vujcic and Giricek will play. Good team especially very strong in the Frontcourt and a very good coach with Respesa on the bench. Germany is always underrated and with a Dirk in the shape of Belgrad they can make a suprise again. In the past Slovenia had a very nice talented squad but now Nachbar and Brezec will not play and Smodis will be again out i think. Slovenia is one of the talented teams for me, but with bad coaching from the bench with Pipan.

And to Milicic he is an idiot. He must at first start to play better and then say such words. He is a very stupid person. It is not the 1st stupid interview from him. Last year during the WC he calld the refs as Indians in a serbian newspaper.

[Genjuro]

My current power ranking:

1.- Spain: Pau Gasol will be there, and I'm counting Garbajosa doesn't make it. Without him Spain is still favourite given the homecourt advantage and obviously an excellent squad, but this team will have to prove they remain as competitive without the unique input that Garbajosa provided these last years.

2.- Greece: Same bunch, same extremely solid and competitive team.

3.- Lithuania: They join Spain and Greece as the biggest favourites with their re-loaded perimeter. If last year's Lithuania suffered dramatical limitations, this year's version should be able to compete against anybody. Jasikevicius, Siskauskas and Kaukenas provide so much firepower and particularly game creation that it's a totally different team.

4.- Croatia: I know Vujcic is very possible to skip the Eurobasket, but I count him here for this power ranking. He's the centerpiece of a talented team that delivered some of the best basketball we saw in the 2005 Eurobasket.

5.- France: Nobody will match their athleticism, they are a deep and talented squad. Still I miss basketball IQ in the backcourt to consider them as top contenders. Tony Parker should help to improve last summer's results.

Marginal contenders (in no particular order):

- Italy: Very dangerous squad, but their key members are still too young. In a couple of years they might be able to join the European elite.

- Serbia: They keep producing talented players, and sooner or later we will see them back to the top. But not for a while. I don't think they will be able to assemble a really strong team for this summer.

- Slovenia: Still talented, although they will miss Nachbar and Brezec. Still, if they manage to convince Smodis, I think the final outcome might be even possitive compared to past tournaments. Anyway, it's fair to expect them to collapse in important games.

- Germany: Nowitzki doesn't seem to be in full shape, although the Eurobasket is still far away. Anyway, although it deserves every kind of accolades what they did in the 2005 Eurobasket, I think they were lucky the way they got to the final (avoiding France and Croatia).

- Turkey: Either way they chose they belong here. If they bring Okur and Turkoglu, you should expect troubles and underperforming; if they don't bring them, they lack some potential to compete at top level. Perhaps it would be wise to bring just Okur, make him the "franchise player" and surround him with not-troube-maker players like Erdogan, Arslan, Akyol, Ilyasova, Pecker, Gonlum...

That's my top-10. I don't think I'm missing anybody relevant.

[wardjdim]

My rankings can be a bit similar, but of course it is a bit too early yet. Anyway, I will try a list too:

1/2. Spain/Greece:

Equal chances for both. Spain has proven to the world that roster-wise they have all that's needed to be considered the best Euro team of the past decade. However, the (almost definite) loss of such an important guy like Garbajosa, the potential absence of Sergio Rodriguez, the up and down game of Navarro and the limited offensive game of most inside guys besides Gasol (not to mention the lack of creativity in case Trias doen't make it in the final squad), might give the edge to Greece for this tournament, even though Spain plays at home.

Greece, on the other hand, is not better talent-wise, but is deep enough to be the best team in the right moment. Last summer, they went from overrated to underrated within two evenings and the final game's score against a Gasol-less Spanish team could only be unfair to them, only explained by a mental collapse. Most of their key players are reaching their peak at this time of their career, their guard line is exceptional, their forwards remain very good-inside outside players, but guys like Spanoulis and Schortsanitis could be question-marks for them.

3./4. Lithuania/France:

Even without Jasikevicius, Lithuania is a top-5/top-8 team in Europe, but with Saras in and in good shape (actually, this is already a question-mark), they are a very deep and experienced contender. They have Siskauskas, Kaukenas and maybe a healthy Macijauskas (a second question-mark) who are also creative and great leaders as well, while younger guys like Kleiza, Maciulis and a hopefully steadier Jasaitis can keep the wings on fire for 40'. Their depth in the frontline is undoubtful, but didn't help them a lot last summer. They have to be stronger inside, if they want to be contenders this year.

The French wunderkids were impressive in 2003, 2005, even in 2006, but were never winners, always lacking a creative big man (and Noah is not coming any time soon), a high basketball IQ point guard and a leader in the perimeter. Parker's and Diaw's game are exceptional and Gelabale, Pietrus brothers and Weis are great for a supporting cast, but, given their lack of mental strength, the average big men (Petro, Turiaf) and with the younger and inexperienced Batum as a key guy off the bench, their potential seems more limited, compared to the recent past.

5./6./7./8. Italy/Germany/Turkey/Croatia:

Italy lacks a decent point guard, a really good center both sides and some experienced offensive force, now that Basile is getting older, but with Bargnani as their new potential star, Belinelli, Gallinari and Mancinelli in the wings and some veteran help (Marconato, Galanda maybe, Bulleri, Rocca), they have what is needed to return to the top again.

One of the two recent overachievers among European national teams, Germany is lacking potential and might see an unmotivated Dirk this summer. Their perimeter strength is getting less and less valuable, their offensive game is not very attractive, yet there is a team spirit in that team that cannot go unnoticed. They have the experience, the leader and the will to always win games with defense and despite their truly limited offensive options. Right now, they are among the teams that can be considered as winning ones in Euro ball.

Turkey definitely overachieved last summer and I agree with Luis that Okur would be a better solution than Turkoglu for the locker room. What I disagree with him in is the limited potential that they have. Guys like Demirel and Atsur are complementary players for the PG position and Arslan is a fine starter there. Erdogan, Akyol and Ilyasova are good for the wings and the Peker/Kuqo/Gonlum/Okur can give them a more than decent frontcourt, yet they will need to overachieve again in order to keep up with the real contenders.

I like Croatia's game a lot and Giricek's absence is not that big in my eyes. But, if they don't have Vujcic, then their best player and the most creative big man is already out. Given that they already lack character, the limited offensive flow is a big hit for them and I can't see how guys like Zizic, Kasun, Markota or Bagaric can make up for Vujcic's absence, despite the fine perimeter play.

9./10./11. Serbia/Slovenia/Russia

Remaining one of the world's most talented teams, without - though - utilizing its talent, Serbia keeps its stars unmotivated for this Eurobasket as well. Among their four worth mentioning PGs (Popovic, Avdalovic, Vujanic, Marinovic), there is not a real contributor at the top level, while their real star, Rakocevic is not stable enough to lead a balanced backcourt and Cvetkovic is not experienced in such competitions. Once again, there is a mixture of youth and experience, with nice shooters (Gurovic, Pavlovic, Tripkovic), ready to be added in the mix, but barely offering something more, while Partizan's potential stars Bogdanovic and Tepic may not be called at the end, due to their lack of experience. The talents of Krstic (if healthy, of course and willing to play), Milicic and Perovic are always welcomed, but a youngster like Erceg seeing significant minutes at PF sounds irrational for this competition.

Slovenia is another mental case. They remain a team without problems in the locker room, but without Smodis, their frontcourt is lacking creativity and a true scorer. Additionally, Brezec, a pretty limited player, yet fair for 10-15 mpg and mostly Nachbar are gonna be missed a lot. If their unstable backcourt stars (Lakovic, Becirovic and maybe Vujacic and Udrich, if they come) manage to make some big shots in the knock-out round, they have some possibilities to advance further than the top-8, but this is unlikely, given their lack of character in the past competitions.

At the end, Russia is only barely making that list, mainly due to their talent and athleticism. Yet, the offensive limitations and continuous mental strugglings of Kirilenko, the limited potential of the Monia-Khryapa duo and the complete chaos that the team appears to face in case Holden is playing at PG makes them an average squad, at least in the offensive end. Khvostov being called brings on some encouragement for the long-term and Bykov can also help carrying some of the PG load, but the real steal is Ponkrashov, a true difference maker off the bench for the next seasons. Shabalkin and Morgunov can also give them some rebounding and post scoring off the bench and Savrasenko is not that bad overall, being a top defensive center. However, without a true point guard they can't go far.

[Genjuro]

the potential absence of Sergio Rodriguez
As far as I know, Sergio will go for sure. There's no question mark in the Spanish team aside Garbajosa (and it's because of an injury). The Eurobasket at home is very important for Spanish basketball, the best chance we've ever had to win gold, and it's about time to do it. Same will happen next year at the Olympics. On the other hand, you can expect several guys skipping the 2009 Eurobasket.

[Matiz]

Slovenia is another mental case. They remain a team without problems in the locker room, but without Smodis, their frontcourt is lacking creativity and a true scorer. Additionally, Brezec, a pretty limited player, yet fair for 10-15 mpg and mostly Nachbar are gonna be missed a lot. If their unstable backcourt stars (Lakovic, Becirovic and maybe Vujacic and Udrich, if they come) manage to make some big shots in the knock-out round, they have some possibilities to advance further than the top-8, but this is unlikely, given their lack of character in the past competitions.
well you guys are a bit overeacting with this "character", some guy found that out and now everybody are glad to repeate it over and over again, while most of players in NT have no "character" troubles in their clubs, and it sounds a bit insulting considering those player never lacked the "character" in junior competitions, rather the opposite...
Slovenian NT has been underperforming ever since, but to be honest no team in europe is that dominant that they couldn't be eliminated in quarters on a bad day (including Greece, Spain, Lithuania) the gap between the 1st and 10th euro team actually isn't as big as some people imagine.

Our NT always managed to beat teams that later won medals and loose vs. teams noone would expect them too, I think it's more of a coach factor here than character (?!). also noone really established a hierarchy in the NT, Slo doesn't have one player that would excell, but 10-15 on the aprox. same level, so in the last minute everyone were trying not to force themselves too much, playing calm and team oriented game untill Udrih or Lakovič realised someone has to finally push it in the next gear, but anyway 10 consecutive points from one individual doesn't help when you're sleeping for the whole game. we had loads of individual talent but noone wanted to force things up so it got unused... that's why I'd love Smodiš to come by, he has been winning games for CSKA all year long.

this year Brezec, Nachbar, Ožbolt, Bečirovič (don't remember?), Milič are out... probably Vujačič as well (Ilgauskas part II), but we could still assemble a competitive team, hopefully less selfconfident/arogant with Lakovič, Udrih, Joksimovič, Maravič, Jagodnik (?damn), Golemac, Slokar, Smodiš, Nesterovič, Lorbek&Lorbek... the players left out shouldn't represent any trouble if we're headed for the 8th-10th again :D, in fact i'm looking forward to a NT that wouldn't look so good on the paper, but on court instead...


and finally once for a change I want a top team in elimination stage, that's how players won't get to sleep.

I agree with the rankings both Genjuro and Ward wrote down, I'd just add that anything could happen and Greece or Lithuhania could end up 8th as well as Italy or Germany winning it all... and after Serbia got eliminated in 05, I won't predict anything about Spain either... and that's also the thing our players tend to forget when they face "lower ranked" teams...

[Genjuro]

this year Brezec, Nachbar, Ožbolt, Bečirovič (don't remember?), Milič are out... probably Vujačič as well (Ilgauskas part II), but we could still assemble a competitive team, hopefully less selfconfident/arogant with Lakovič, Udrih, Joksimovič, Maravič, Jagodnik (?damn), Golemac, Slokar, Smodiš, Nesterovič, Lorbek&Lorbek... the players left out shouldn't represent any trouble if we're headed for the 8th-10th again :D, in fact i'm looking forward to a NT that wouldn't look so good on the paper, but on court instead...
I don't like your wings much. That team is not that good after all. And you have guys there who have played little or struggled, like Udrih, Slokar or Lorbek.

Related to this:

I agree with the rankings both Genjuro and Ward wrote down, I'd just add that anything could happen and Greece or Lithuhania could end up 8th as well as Italy or Germany winning it all... and after Serbia got eliminated in 05, I won't predict anything about Spain either... and that's also the thing our players tend to forget when they face "lower ranked" teams...
I don't agree. Unless something very strange happens I can't see Slovenia defeating Greece or Spain in an elimination game this year. Same goes against Lithuania, if they play as I think they can do it.

In 2005 there was a lot of uncertainty because many different issues, but now you have two national teams (Spain and Greece) very well established, very competitive, solid, still far from being old, and I think there's too much difference between them and the likes of Slovenia, Germany, Turkey or Serbia to expect an upset. Some teams might bring some potential that might realize in the right moment, like Italy, but it's a long shot.

[wardjdim]

In regards to Matiz's statement about potential upsets in knock-out games, there shall be some notable shortcomings concerning the teams that could be upset.

For example, Serbia's bad chemistry is much more "dangerous", as is Bargnani's and Gallinari's lack of experience as scorers for the Italian national team. Same applies to Slovenia's limited mental strength. If Turkey has some lack of firepower or they bring Turkoglu again and depend their game on their so-called stars, then they will be limited themselves and the same applies to Russia's one-sided game, without true constant offensive focus, just wing shooters and J.R. Holden.

On the other hand, a team like Germany, mainly has only one shortcoming and this is their offensive game, but they know how to fight in a knock-out game and they proved it repeatedly in the past. They will do it again if they have the chance, something that a team like Slovenia has yet to achieve. Last year's Turkey did that as well, even overachieving some times, but still playing as a team and showing excellent character. France now has the experience to win such games too and it will be a surprise if they don't go very deep in this tournament, as they also have the talent, although they are sort of limited and don't have a leader.

I am leaving out of the discussion two really talented squads that will heavily depend on the absence/presence of Jasikevicius and Vujcic, their true leaders and contributors.

Of course, there is no point of pointing out that both Spain and Greece are much better than the rest when it comes to the crucial games. No other team has improved that significantly in order to be in position to seriously threaten the world and European champions in any type of knock-out game. It took today's Spain from 2000 to 2006 to become winners and Greece had to wait 7 years (1998-2005) to actually win a knock-out game, before they became a powerhouse.

[jwfish6]

Bargnani's and Gallinari's lack of experience as scorers for the Italian national team.

Maybe not this year, but Italy surely has as much future potential as anyone with Bargnani, Gallinari, Datome and Bellineli. Those 4 could really take them places.

As for Greece, do you think Jake Tsakalidis will ever suit up for them? He could really help them out and make them even better. Despite not being very productive or athletic, he showed he could produce last year with his short stint of playing time with Memphis.

[wardjdim]

Maybe not this year, but Italy surely has as much future potential as anyone with Bargnani, Gallinari, Datome and Bellineli. Those 4 could really take them places.
Sure they will. We are just talking about this Eurobasket in that thread. Add Mancinelli in the mix and, if they find a decent PG and Gigli ends up being a contributing bigman, they will be super-strong and intriguing by 2010

As for Greece, do you think Jake Tsakalidis will ever suit up for them? He could really help them out and make them even better. Despite not being very productive or athletic, he showed he could produce last year with his short stint of playing time with Memphis.
I would not say "never", but this is close to impossible. Tsakalidis is out of the NT since 2003. He has created issues in the lockerroom back then and he was
not invited back since Yannakis took over in 2004. He is a one-dimensional, really limited player and Greece just has too many, much better and younger players in the post (Papadopoulos is the oldest one right now, aged 27, Schortsanitis, Bouroussis, Mavrokefalidis are all much younger, even Kosta Koufos and Vouyoukas are potential NT guys in the next tournaments), not to mention that they are better guys and play for the team, not even arguing for playing time. The same applies to the forwards (Dikoudis, Tsartsaris, Fotsis) who play at center in shorter line-ups.

So, I really think that a slow-motion, one-sided offensive guy like Tsakalidis will likely never play for the Greek NT again.

[nextstar1019]

i agree fish, he can always help...plus hes 7'2"

[Genjuro]

I would never risk the chemistry of a successful and well-established team as Greece with a guy like Tsakalidis. I can only think of one reason to give him a chance: Pau Gasol. Still, they have big bodies to put down low such as Papadopoulos and Bouroussis. Tsakalidis is not going to help the team to play any better in my opinion.

[Matiz]

I don't like your wings much. That team is not that good after all. And you have guys there who have played little or struggled, like Udrih, Slokar or Lorbek.
no wings at all man, the team is by far worse than one we could or did assemble reality is far from any high expectations from my part (but thats not the point), as I said I'd prefer less "wannabe perenial stars" with some role players instead... realising their limits and potential trying to do their best instead of considering appearing on court vs. less established players already means they've automatically won.
As far as struggeling, I actually do believe Udrih can be one of the best scoring PG's in europe when used properly, which he was not in the last WC btw. he showed that in some short periods when he took over the game...
Slokar is a no brainer here, being a 3rd PF after Smodiš or Golemac (hopefully... they're not in Spain yet...;)) his role shouldn't really be that important, as much as I disagree with options he choosed in his career he surprisingly actually is developing... but still shouldn't really matter if he is not...
While Lorbek is a completely different player with Roma than he was with Unicaja, didn't get along team&coach there, but one of the leaders of Roma right now. Still has his same old weaknesses he had before, still far from some extra player, but he can play and I prefer him over Tušek any day, eventhough by situation in Malaga you'd get a completely different picture.

I don't agree. Unless something very strange happens I can't see Slovenia defeating Greece or Spain in an elimination game this year. Same goes against Lithuania, if they play as I think they can do it.

In 2005 there was a lot of uncertainty because many different issues, but now you have two national teams (Spain and Greece) very well established, very competitive, solid, still far from being old, and I think there's too much difference between them and the likes of Slovenia, Germany, Turkey or Serbia to expect an upset. Some teams might bring some potential that might realize in the right moment, like Italy, but it's a long shot.
Slovenia is recently loosing games vs. teams they underestimate, while playing with a surprisingly dominance vs. medal winners... i won't claim they'll always beat medal contenders, no way... but things like that happen, it all depends on one single game and roster strenght plays lesser role than people would've thought. something strange to happen? like what? Lakovič nailing 5 3 pointers in a row? Nesterovič shuting down anything that moves in the paint? Lorbek dishing away some passes for easy 2? Smodiš with someconsecutive off rebs basket and a foul? nothing strange- seen that, happens occasionaly, nothing surprising it just depends on when it happens... maybee it won't maybee it will, but I honestly don't understand that you think it can't happen in an elimination game, or is there actually a nation-wide mentality of loosing in sports (which again can't be true imho)?
and it's not about Slovenia... Turkey, Croatia or Serbia can easily do it as well (not denying Spain, Lithuania or Greece would be the favorites there, but not by some mentionable margin), few small things is all needed with a bit of luck...
but okay, we obviously tend to disagree that there is no superpowers in euro bball at the moment (eventhough I admit Spain is the closest one to that status right now)

IMHO there isn't much of a difference between top3 and 8-9-10 really. Croatia could've easily won vs. Spain in 2005 (what exactly would people say of Spain now if they ended up 9th, 10th?), back than by most people practically 9-10th ranked France could almost win it all. Few years ago, I was enthusiatstic about Greece, which had a phenomenal roster back than as well, didn't manage to do anything eventhough they were capable of winning medals back than as well (I won't even mention Turkey)... it's all one game, daily shape, might be even one single move on court or one single ref decision, and that's it. Noone predicted Croatia would be anything near good before EC05 (just based on the past experience), I did, yet they were probably the top3 team gamewise... but I still don't think they're any stronger as they were just because they played that good in one tournament, since one past tournament practically means nothing.

and again, I know you like that Slovenian "mental" issue, but it's all a mixture of multiple things combining in one single game. If our bball players would be what you call them, than I guess they wouldn't be one of the top teams in junior stage and Olimpija wouldn't be making all those upsets year after year either.
Definately slovenian mentality is not on the level of serbian "ne može na niko ništa" (noone can beat us) that is the core of Sale Nazionale, Danilović, Gurović, Divac's balls of steel, but honestly how many players and nations do you believe have such mentality... few to none nowadays... and honestly I don't like your opinion about our "mentality" at all...

No other team has improved that significantly in order to be in position to seriously threaten the world and European champions in any type of knock-out game. It took today's Spain from 2000 to 2006 to become winners and Greece had to wait 7 years (1998-2005) to actually win a knock-out game, before they became a powerhouse.
don't want to remind you anyhow on this ward, but before the Greece - Slovenia game you were practically stating the same, claiming there is no way Greece looses it... i said, c'mmon you're good, but not by that far better, we've got our chance... won't describe the game at all, I'd just say in the same manner again: Greece, Spain, Lithuania are right now the best teams in europe rosterwise, but don't expect any easy job vs. 4th-10th in europe, better expect some upsets (the word "upset" alone, is relative) to happen...


conclusion: anything can happen, and i love it... and sobering...

sorry if I am getting to annoying, i'll quit after this ;)

[KristianH]

I think Spain, Greece and Lithuania (if complete) are just by a notch above the rest of the field, which is pretty even.

[wardjdim]

Well, I hate to admit it, but my reaction during the 2005 game between Slovenia and Greece was a wrong thing, probably overrating my own super-confidence about Greece and also overestimating a group round game.
On the other hand, this is the only group game that Greece has lost in the past two competitions, winning - since then - all but one official games (which is the WC Final game vs Spain). This also includes all elimination games as well, where Greece went 7-1 in 2005 and 2006. Slovenia lost in the elimimation round of both tournaments (actually lost both games, so this is a 0-2 case), both times to overachieving teams that appeared mentally stronger in both cases.

So, I don't want to be sure about it because Slovenia is a wonderful team, talent-wise, yet some confidence and overreaction aren't enough to hide some parts of the truth. This truth is that Greece has been mentally stronger than Slovenia in the past two years.

As you mentioned before, many teams in the past have been underachieving and you mentioned Turkey before last summer, Greece before Yannakis and be sure that Serbia is a big-time underachiever since 2002. It's not only Slovenia and in one of the future tournaments, you guys might be in the top-3, no-one denies that chance. But this will not happen unless some things change in the team. Having the pieces to build a successful team is one thing and putting them together is another.

[Genjuro]

IMHO there isn't much of a difference between top3 and 8-9-10 really. Croatia could've easily won vs. Spain in 2005 (what exactly would people say of Spain now if they ended up 9th, 10th?), back than by most people practically 9-10th ranked France could almost win it all. Few years ago, I was enthusiatstic about Greece, which had a phenomenal roster back than as well, didn't manage to do anything eventhough they were capable of winning medals back than as well (I won't even mention Turkey)... it's all one game, daily shape, might be even one single move on court or one single ref decision, and that's it. Noone predicted Croatia would be anything near good before EC05 (just based on the past experience), I did, yet they were probably the top3 team gamewise... but I still don't think they're any stronger as they were just because they played that good in one tournament, since one past tournament practically means nothing.
Again, the 2005 Eurobasket had great uncertainty for many different reasons. Basically, the best teams in the previous years had all big issues:
- Serbia had miserably failed in 2003 and 2004.
- Spain was missing Pau Gasol.
- Lithuania was missing Sarunas Jasikevicius.
- Italy was becoming too old.
- Germany was still Nowitzki and eleven other guys, while they didn't get far in 2003.

Then, several teams with talented rosters such as Greece, Croatia, Slovenia or Turkey had failed to materialize that talent on court in previous tournaments.

I mean, there wasn't ONE SINGLE TEAM without very serious question marks concerning its expected performance. Actually everybody pretty much agreed then that it was a really exciting tournament precisely for that uncertainty.

Now it's another story. Spain and Greece are very well-established teams. I know Greece sometimes struggle to win group games (they fell trapped in their own sleeppy rythm), but they deliver in knockout games.

Let me put it this way: heading into the eightfinal round in the Worlds, I couldn't see how possibly Serbia or Lithuania could beat Spain regardless my paranoia with our perennial quarterfinal struggles at world stage. The difference was simply huge.

Hopefully we'll see an improved Serbia this time (the same goes for Italy and other countries), and as you well say anything can happen in a given game, but still I think many people are overrating the parity in Europe these days.

If Spain finishes 9th or 10th it will be a historical failure, probably worse than the day Angola beat us in Barcelona 92, or China in the 94 Worlds. Still one single game won't send you to those positions.

[jwfish6]

Serbian Preliminary Squad: Nemanja Aleksandrov (Red Star), Vule Avdalovic (Valencia), Luka Bogdanovic (Partizan), Branko Cvetkovic (FMP), Tadija Dragicevic (Red Star), Nikola Dragovic (UCLA), Zoran Erceg (FMP), Milan Gurovic (Red Star), Mile Ilic (New Jersey Nets), Vuk Ivanovic (Brigham Young University), Marko Jaric (Minnesota Timberwolves), Dragan Labovic (FMP), Marko Marinovic (Akasvayu Girona), Stefan Markovic (Hemofarm), Darko Milicic (Orlando Magic), Nenad Misanovic (Red Star), Sasha Pavlovic (Cleveland Cavaliers), Nikola Pekovic(Partizan), Kosta Perovic (Partizan), Bojan Popovic (Dynamo Moscow), Petar Popovic (Red Star), Ivan Radenovic (University of Arizona), Vuk Radivojevic (Red Star), Vladimir Radmanovic (Los Angeles Lakers), Igor Rakocevic (Tau Ceramica), Aleksandar Rasic (Efes Pilsen), Predrag Suput (Hemofarm), Milos Teodosic (FMP), Milenko Tepic (Partizan), Uros Tripkovic (Partizan), Novica Velickovic (Partizan), Milos Vujanic (Panathinaikos), Vladan Vukosavljevic (Hemofarm).

There sure is ALOT of youth here. So does this mean all of these players will go to training and then they will cut the list down or will they cut the list down before the players meet?

[Genjuro]

PG: Jaric, Vujanic, Avdalovic
SG: Rakocevic, Marinovic
SF: Pavlovic, Gurovic
PF: Radmanovic, Erceg, Radenovic
C: Milicic, Perovic

For example.

I put Marinovic as SG just to fill that position. Popovic is an option. Radenovic could be the fifth inside player, or Ilic, or Petar Popovic or even Pekovic.

It's a talented squad, but still I see many chemistry issues there, with Jaric, Radmanovic and Rakocevic in the same team.

[wardjdim]

I disagree with your list. Having cancers as Jaric and - especially - Radmanovic on a team that is trying to come back from recent failures is possibly the worst idea that they could have.
It's not like Radmanovic or Jaric can really help them gain an Olympic ticket. And, more than that, there will be some young and talented players cut for their sake. It's now time for some sacrifices on the Serbian squad, in order to become contenders again in the next couple of years..

[Genjuro]

I disagree with your list. Having cancers as Jaric and - especially - Radmanovic on a team that is trying to come back from recent failures is possibly the worst idea that they could have.
It's not like Radmanovic or Jaric can really help them gain an Olympic ticket. And, more than that, there will be some young and talented players cut for their sake. It's now time for some sacrifices on the Serbian squad, in order to become contenders again in the next couple of years..
I was just trying to put the most talented squad together, but you're right.

PG: Vujanic, Avdalovic, Popovic
SG: Rakocevic, Marinovic
SF: Pavlovic, Gurovic
PF: Erceg, Radenovic
C: Milicic, Perovic, Pekovic

This team simply doesn't have enough potential to get into the semifinals IMO.

[jwfish6]

Yeah, So I understand the final 12 selection. What I'm wondering is if all of those 30 or so players on the list will report to one location for a tryout, or if they will just begin cutting down the list with their knowledge of each player. For example, with about 6 or 7 junior players on the list will they all play the full summer of Junior competitions and then at the end of the summer report to the Senior NT Camp?

For youth, I would probably chose:

PG: Jaric, Vujanic, Teodosic
SG: Pavlovic, Tripkovic, Tepic
SF: Gurovic, Radmanovic
PF: Milicic, Erceg
C: Perovic, Pekovic

I might place Stefan Markovic on the squad as well after proven that he can really produce in senior competition and being probably the most proven 1988 player (Serbian) so far.

[jwfish6]

Actually, the new Serb coach seems sort of intrigued by the 'bad boy' image of Jaric and Radmanovic.

http://www.fibaeurope.com/coid_EtbSlAORH,AYCMou3c,Zu0.articleMode_on.html

[wombat6802]

Nice article, jwfish. One can't help but wonder how well they could play with some extra NBA-caliber talent. Milicic looked very very good last year after his NBA seasoning and who knows, perhaps Jaric and Radman could really help these guys get the confidence to compete with the best.

[Srle]

PG- Teodosic,Marinovic, Popovic
SG- Cvetkovic,Vujanic,Tripkovic
SF- Radmanovic or Gurovic( I say Gurovic, both are idiots but Gurovic prove him self to hit the clutch shots in a tournament competitions) Pavlovic.
PF- Erceg, Pekovic(If he chose us) if not Aleksandrov( don't deserve at all) because of potential.
C- Milicic and Perovic
Starting five's
PG- Teodosic
SG-Vujanic
SF- Pavlovic
PF-Erceg
C- Milicic
Too bad we are going without Krstic and Stojakovic. With them we would be contenders for at least 4 th place.

[Srle]

I mean medal.

[DonMonte]

PG: Jaric, Vujanic, Avdalovic
SG: Rakocevic, Marinovic
SF: Pavlovic, Gurovic
PF: Radmanovic, Erceg, Radenovic
C: Milicic, Perovic

For example.

I put Marinovic as SG just to fill that position. Popovic is an option. Radenovic could be the fifth inside player, or Ilic, or Petar Popovic or even Pekovic.

It's a talented squad, but still I see many chemistry issues there, with Jaric, Radmanovic and Rakocevic in the same team.

I would make some small changes. I would leave Marinovic out and put in Cvetkovic as SG or let Vujanic be the 6man which comes from the bench and pays the SG and take Jaric, Avdalovic and Teodosic as PG´s. And Jaric is no cancer. He is WC and EC and played some good games. Hit a very important 3-pointer against the USA for example in 2002.

Jaric/Avdalovic/Teodosic
Rakocevic/Vujanic
Pavlovic/Gurovic
Radmanovic/Erceg
Milicic/Perovic

Then one of the bigs Dragicevic, Radenovic or in the 1st case Pekovic if he decides to play for Serbia. Or include Cvetkovic in the squad and only go with 4 bigs.

[jwfish6]

Apparently Avdalovic probably won't be in the NT this year, which could be a good thing.

http://24sec.net/article.asp?index=3883

I would like to have half NBA players and half young prospects. That would eliminate alot of the solid Euro players like Popovic, Advalovic, Marinov and Cvetkovic, but I think that would be a perfect blend. Obviously Krstic and Stojakovic cant play this year, but in years to come it'd be nice to see NBA players: Jaric, Pavlovic, Radmanovic, Milicic, Stojakovic, Krstic, and Perovic with serious young prospects Teodosic, Tripkovic, Tepic, Aleksandrov etc. We could really balance the talent out and help mold the young players. But then again, there should be a couple spots open for European stars (like the old Bodiroga such as Gurovic and Milojevic). I would just like to get rid of the AVERAGE euro players, the ones that have left us empty handed the past 4 years.

Why is Drobnjak and Milojevic not on the list? They are some of the most proven Serbs playing anywhere right now. They should definetely be on the list over some of those "has-beens".

[Genjuro]

Actually, the new Serb coach seems sort of intrigued by the 'bad boy' image of Jaric and Radmanovic.

http://www.fibaeurope.com/coid_EtbSlAORH,AYCMou3c,Zu0.articleMode_on.html
Well, it's a matter of handling egos. If he can do it, Serbia might be very benefited.

Still, that reminds me of George Karl's comments on coaching the US Team. He said that he needed to spend so much time handling egos that it was difficult to do some real coaching and create a real team. Apparently Serbia is ahead schedule when it comes to ressemble the US Team.

By the way, I don't think Radmanovic is any kind of 'bad boy'. He's just a jerk.

[Srle]

Drbnja said he is done with playing for national team. And he would chose Montenegro if he was younger. He was born in Montenegro. Milojevic is hurt. Thanks god they don't play. I hope Rakocevic,Radmanovic and Jaric will not make it roster.

[Toxicity]

Probable Italy roster:

PG: Bulleri, Di Bella (Pecile)
SG: Belinelli, Basile, Mordente
SF: Soragna, Mancinelli, Gallinari
PF: Bargnani, Galanda (Gigli)
C: Marconato, Rocca

I think the roster could change but not much. I think it's pretty sure at 95%... still, i wouldn't like to have Basile-Galanda-Marconato (all three are experienced guys but probably too old, if not unathletic and slow)...

p.s.= the decent PG of the future could be Giuseppe Poeta (playing for Teramo, 6-3 1985, a Pozzecco like)... or, later, Roberto Rullo (1990, more a 6-4 combo right now)...

[DonMonte]

Apparently Avdalovic probably won't be in the NT this year, which could be a good thing.

http://24sec.net/article.asp?index=3883

I would like to have half NBA players and half young prospects. That would eliminate alot of the solid Euro players like Popovic, Advalovic, Marinov and Cvetkovic, but I think that would be a perfect blend. Obviously Krstic and Stojakovic cant play this year, but in years to come it'd be nice to see NBA players: Jaric, Pavlovic, Radmanovic, Milicic, Stojakovic, Krstic, and Perovic with serious young prospects Teodosic, Tripkovic, Tepic, Aleksandrov etc. We could really balance the talent out and help mold the young players. But then again, there should be a couple spots open for European stars (like the old Bodiroga such as Gurovic and Milojevic). I would just like to get rid of the AVERAGE euro players, the ones that have left us empty handed the past 4 years.

Why is Drobnjak and Milojevic not on the list? They are some of the most proven Serbs playing anywhere right now. They should definetely be on the list over some of those "has-beens".


If Tepic or Tripkovic are there in 2-3 years were Cvetkovic is now they can be happy. And the same counts for Aleksandrov compared to Erceg. And Avdalovic is the best firstpass PG which Serbia has right now. I am sure Teodosic will be better as he soon, but it is not sure how he will play at a higher level.

[coachjon]

you guys are big into european basketball. ever seen or heard of a guy wolfgang gieler 6-8 from germany. he played on their u-18 and u-20 teams a few years back and is now at UC Irvine. he played for Peter-Joerres Gymnasium prior to coming over to US.

[jwfish6]

Interesting to see now Rakocevic and Gurovic out of the NT making room for even more youth.

http://24sec.net/article.asp?index=3889

[DonMonte]

Interesting to see now Rakocevic and Gurovic out of the NT making room for even more youth.

http://24sec.net/article.asp?index=3889

Milan Lazarevic is talking shit one more time. Rakocevic never said that he will not play. He said that there is a chance that he will not play, the same about Avdalovic. The only players which are out for sure are Stojakovic, Krstic and Milojevic for now. Even Gurovic is not out yet. Slavnic said that Gurovic said to him that he wants to play.

[pablinho]

Drbnja said he is done with playing for national team. And he would chose Montenegro if he was younger. He was born in Montenegro. Milojevic is hurt. Thanks god they don't play. I hope Rakocevic,Radmanovic and Jaric will not make it roster.

Man, rAKO is averaging 24 points per game in the ACB playoffs with 70 % 3FG to be honest he is on fire... if you can, get him on the list :P

[wardjdim]

By the way, I don't think Radmanovic is any kind of 'bad boy'. He's just a jerk.

He is a bad boy and a spoiled one as well, when it comes to locker-room punching.

But, the most dangerous part of his mentality is that he wants to be a leader of such a team. This team needs healing in the long-term and whoever claims that can be the leader, but is nothing than an average, one-dimensional NBA shooter, then he should be left out and not considered again.

Same applies to Jaric, the guy who thought he was the leader in 2003, after Stojakovic got injured, simply because he was barely averaging 10 ppg as a rookie in the NBA back then. Guess what happened when Serbia faced Lithuania..

Once again, second chances to cocky, unproven and non-established NBA veterans are not the solution for a talented basketball country like Serbia. Remaining out of the medal round or the Olympics are not so important when the future is bright. It's now time for a change for them and in my eyes, there is no other solution than cutting these players for good..

EDIT:

I have been really interested in that topic, so here is my updated roster on the Serbian team. The less veterans, the better..
I am totally sure that without a serious refreshing of all positions but PG, Serbia will end up just wasting another generation.

Best team, at least future-wise and with some PG addition after this summer..

PG- Bojan Popovic, Avdalovic, Marinovic (Vujanic if healthy, Teodosic)
SG- Rakocevic, Cvetkovic, Tripkovic
SF- Pavlovic, Tepic (Bogdanovic)
PF- Erceg, Nemanja (Radenovic)
C- Milicic, Perovic (Krstic, if healthy and Nets let him play)

I am cutting Gurovic, despite his season, cutting the NBA duo of Jaric and Radmanovic. There is no future with Rakocevic, but no other guy can lead this young team, at least this summer and this could be his last one with the NT. Cvetkovic will also be necessary, after such a season. The wing and frontcourt positions are covered with youth and guarantee some great future.

If they are not unlucky, then in 2-3 years, they will be among contenders again and will have the highest upside among European teams, especially when they find a really good PG..

Potential is everywhere and some depth at the weak PG line is necessary. Olympics qualification is not likely, but the future tournaments will help young players blossom..

On the other hand, if what 24sec.net wrote is indeed accurate, then Rakocevic and Avdalovic are out, so Serbia gets thinner in the guard position, can get Teodosic in the mix and add more shooting and versatility in the PF position, taking a nice guy like Radenovic..

[cedb89]

This is the France NT for the next Euro (they are 14 but only 12 will stay...)

PG : Aymeric Jeanneau (ASVEL), Tony Parker (San Antonio Spurs, NBA), Yohann Sangaré (ASVEL)

SG/SF : Cédric Ferchaud (Pau-Orthez), Boris Diaw (Phoenix Suns, NBA), Yakhouba Diawara (Denver Nuggets, NBA), Joseph Gomis (Valladolid, ESP), Tariq Kirksay (Nancy), Michel Morandais (Naples, ITA)

PF/C : Florent Piétrus (Malaga, ESP), Ronny Turiaf (Los Angeles Lakers, NBA), Frédéric Weis (Bilbao, ESP), Ian Mahinmi (Pau-Orthez), Sasha Giffa (Strasbourg)

Mickael Pietrus, Gelabale and Petro are not in the team!
Bergeaud (the coach) said that France can't have a nba way of playing (? sorry for my english?) in a Fiba Championship because even the USA which has the best nba players is not world champ'...But these three guys are not completly out of the NT and they may be back for the OGames in China (if they play well of course in their nba team)
Other guys like bokolo or Batum are not in th team but they are still very young...
One last thing : Bergeaud annouced his starting five for the competition : Parker-Gomis-Diaw-F.Pietrus-Weis

[wardjdim]

Yeah, when I first read it, I was very curious for Bergeaud's move to cut Gelabale (mainly him), a steady contributor, the team's 3rd scorer in the past WC, Batum (after such an impressive year and with this EC being a perfect opportunity for him to gain experience), then M. Pietrus, after a fine season with the Warriors and Bokolo, a key guy that they want to develop as their 2nd best PG.

Another surprise is that with those cuts, Bergeaud pretty much stops depending on the very talented 1981-82 generation that was dominant in the Junior level and just lacked some fundamentals to reach the gold medal level in any type of competition. Even though these fundamentals were missing (as well as a leader and a contributing big guy like Noah), France still did pretty well in every tournament they participated in. They finished 4th in their first senior Eurobasket in 2003, almost reached the gold medal game in 2005, finishing 3rd at the end and were "the best of the rest" in the "4-team WC" of Japan, even without Toni Parker.

Whether this is an experiment that Bergeaud is attempting, while seeking depth, better shooting and team-oriented guys, or just a new approach towards the Euro game, this still comes as a surprise to almost every basketball person. In any case, this French team, now mainly based on Parker, Diaw and some Euro-league veterans) might be the most intriguing team of this tournament, to say the least.